(more data mostly recanting again) Disambiguating Perfection VS Sinlessness in the Bible and EGW Writings


<Oct 24, 2024>

possibility of sinlessness now (despite of unclaimability & unthinkability):


"In our work, we are to remember the way in which Christ worked. He
made the world. He made man. Then He came in person to the world to
show its inhabitants how to live sinless lives" (Ev 385).

"Paul writes to the Corinthians, 'Casting down imaginations, and every
high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and
bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.'
When you come into this position, the work of consecration will be
better understood by you both. Your thoughts will be pure, chaste, and
elevated, your actions pure and sinless" (3T 83).

"To every one who surrenders fully to God is given the privilege of
living without sin, in obedience to the law of heaven" (RH Sept. 27,
1906).

"But it is God’s purpose that man shall stand before Him upright and
noble; and God will not be defeated by Satan. He sent His Son to this
world to bear the death penalty of man’s transgression, and to show
man how to live a sinless life. There is no other way in which man can
be saved. 'Without Me,' Christ says, 'ye can do nothing.' Through Him,
and Him alone, can the natural heart be changed, the affections
transformed, the affections set flowing heavenward. Christ alone can
give life to the soul dead in trespasses and sins" (YI April 16,
1903).

"Thus He (Christ) placed us on vantage ground, where we could live
pure, sinless lives. Repentant sinners stand before God justified and
accepted, because the Innocent One has borne their guilt. The
undeserving are made deserving, because in their behalf the Deserving
became the undeserving" (ST June 17, 1903).

"Christ bore the sins of the whole world. He was the second Adam.
Taking upon Himself human nature, He passed over the ground where Adam
stumbled and fell. Having taken humanity, He has an intense interest
in human beings. He felt keenly the sinfulness, the shame, of sin. He
is our Elder Brother. He came to prove that human beings can, through
the power of God, live sinless lives" (ST Aug. 9, 1905).

"The Saviour is wounded afresh and put to open shame when His people
pay no heed to His word. He came to this world and lived a sinless
life, that in His power His people might also live lives of
sinlessness. He desires them by practicing the principles of truth to
show to the world that God’s grace has power to sanctify the heart"
(RH April 1, 1902).
</Oct 24, 2024>


<Sept 29, 2024>

perfection is not equal to sinlessness
sinlessness is perfection
but perfection is not necessarily sinlessness (yet)

was/is sinless
  • Christ was the only sinless one who ever dwelt on earth {DA 72.2}
  • unfallen angels {7ABC 461.3}
  • unfallen worlds {COL 190.3}
can be sinless (when we stand before God to receive robe of sinlessness)
  • Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts, including the one relating to the observance of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, the day that He blessed and sanctified, “because that in it He had rested from all His work.” (Genesis 2:3.) {8MR 99.2}  
  • He bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we might at last stand before God clothed in the robe of sinlessness. {ST Chapter 1134} 
  • We cannot say, “I am sinless,” till this vile body is changed and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus, the blessed hope is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; complete in Christ, robed in His righteousness and perfection.—The Signs of the Times, March 23, 1888. {3SM 355.4}
  • When the conflict of life is ended, when the armor is laid off at the feet of Jesus, when the saints of God are glorified, then and then only will it be safe to claim that we are saved, and sinless.—The Signs of the Times, May 16, 1895. {3SM 355.5}
perfect (at some point in time)
  • job (later questioned God, but repented)
  • lucifer (rebelled, will not repent)
  • noah (later got drunk, probably repented)
  • adam (ate wrong fruit, repented)
  • 1/3 angels (believed lucifer)
  • Zacharias and Elizabeth (was blameless, but doubt made him dumb till John's birth)
  • Jesus (always)
  • Heavenly Father (be ye therefore perfect as)
became perfect (via repentance, grace, faith)
  • moses, elijah, enoch
  • others predicted will be saved (thief on the cross, david, abraham, apostles on thrones judging
can be perfect
  • anyone (repentance, grace, faith, obedience)
  • no need for unfallen nature (examples above)
can become imperfect
  • anyone (via sin)
  • even if unfallen nature (adam, lucifer, 1/3 angels)
when to be perfect
  • "now, while the precious Saviour is making an atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ." {Mar 275.2}
  • "Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ." {TMK 354.3}
anti-perfection belief
  • when "perfect" is mentioned, attempt to change the topic to "sinless perfection" because they know it is on the judgement day. but perfection should be now before the close of probation.
  • don't want to obey some command
  • "So perfect is the character represented which men must have in order to be Christ’s disciples that the infidel has said that it is not possible for any human being to attain unto it." {HP 201.2}
with this understanding:
  1. we don't need to explain away (editing the bible w/o actually editing) perfection by substituting weaker synonyms from the hebrew, "mature" etc... since almost all translation use "perfection" anyway, no need to insinuate they all used the wrong word.
  2. no need to explain away perfection by ignoring "as your heavenly Father is perfect" w/c is the direct context and instead jumping elsewhich context (e.g. "merciful", "perfect love") to reduce possible stress of the high bar
  3. no need to be confused why some "was perfect" people committed sin later, and therefore falsely thinking you can be perfect and still have sins unrepented of
  4. it shows that the bible doesn't contradict itself
    1. paul "saved by grace, not of works" doesn't contradict Jesus' "be ye therefore perfect"
  5. it shows that the EGW writings don't contradict
    1. "now, be perfect" does not contradict "sinlessness only on judgement/glorification"
  6. it shows both bible and sop are correct
  7. helps us understand "as all correct" the seemingly contradictory statements regarding perfection, sinlessness and the like
  8. shows how accessible perfection is for all
  9. also takes care of (or compatible with) so many definitions of sin in the sda theology handbook
  10. can unite anti-LGT and LGT (Last Generation Theology) camps / debate
    1. reveals that perfection promoting is not against sinlessness reserving
  11. might solve pre-fall / post-fall Christ's nature debate also
  12. grace does not contradict perfection
    1. paul's 'saved by grace, thru faith, not of works' eph 2:8 does not contradict Jesus' 'be ye therefore perfect' mat 5:48.
</Sept 29, 2024>

<Sept 30, 2024>

seeming contradictions that might need further disambiguation
  • "man can never attain to his exalted character" {3SP 77.2}
    this is not "perfection"
    but character level / grade?
    context is sacrifices, "he made sacrifices that will never be required of man". Jesus can die for all of our sins because he is infinite. we are not infinite.
    the "perfect submission" in the next sentence is not about character but about submission.
    we can also perfectly submit to God, but God will not require us Jesus-level of sacrifice.
</Sep 30, 2024>

If you are sure that it is impossible to be perfect/sinless then your sureness is also imperfect. hehe.
Those who claim that it is impossible to be perfect/sinless are actually not perfectly sure either. hehe.
If they claim to be perfectly sure that it is impossible to be perfect, then they have claimed to be perfect themselves! hehe


NOTE: i'm recanting this position in favor of the previously understanding that perfection and sinlessness are the same.  furthermore there seems to be two meanings of sinlessness: (erased after understanding point in time perfection and that sinlessness will be on the judgement day)

1) untainted sinlessness - only Jesus
2) condition of sinlessness - possible for those who obey

1. untainted sinlessness
Christ was the only sinless one who ever dwelt on earth {DA 72.2}
2. condition of sinlessness - possible for the obedient
Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God’s commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts, including the one relating to the observance of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, the day that He blessed and sanctified, “because that in it He had rested from all His work.” (Genesis 2:3.) {8MR 99.2}  
He bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we might at last stand before God clothed in the robe of sinlessness. {ST Chapter 1134} 

May 14, 2016


---------- old article below --------------
Goals:
  1. To disambiguate sinlessness and perfection (of character);
  2. To resolve seemingly contradicting statements in the Bible and as well as EGW Writings;
  3. To explain how anti-perfection camp intentionally or unintentionally injects the word "sinless" into the "perfection (of character)" question to pull the debate on their court and get a draw;
  4. To point out the impossibility for us to claim sinlessness and the equally important truth of the possibility of perfection (of character) and the encouragement and requirement for it;
  5. To cite the danger of claiming sinlessness;
  6. To cite the danger or refuting perfection.
Why does the Bible say only Jesus is sinless but encourage us to be perfect?

Why does EGW say only Jesus is sinless but also say that perfection of character is possible?

How do we reconcile both statements?


Bible on Jesus' sinlessness:

  1. 1 Peter 2:22
    He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
  2. Hebrews 4:15
    For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
  3. 1 John 3:5
    And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Bible on our unclaimability to sinlessness:

  1. 1 John 1:8
    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
  2. Romans 3:23
    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Bible on the possibility and encouragement of perfection: 

  1. Deuteronomy 13:18
    Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
  2. Matthew 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
  3. Genesis 6:9
    These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
  4. Genesis 17:1
    And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
  5. Job 1:1
    There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

EGW on Jesus' sinlessness:

  1. Christ was the only sinless one who ever dwelt on earth;  {DA 72.2}
  2. He lived a sinless life. {HLv 206.1}
  3. but as the sinless one His nature recoiled from evil;  {CSA 26.5}
  4. but he came to this world, and took upon his sinless soul the guilt of sinful man {CEv 38.1}
  5. The Son of God could fully understand the aggravating sins of the transgressor, and in His sinless character He alone could make an acceptable atonement for man in suffering the agonizing sense of His Father’s displeasure.  {Con 50.1}
  6.  by finally yielding His own sinless life to save perishing man from death.—Testimonies for the Church 1:548, 549, 1867 {CD 48.1}
  7. He, the Sinless One, was treated as we deserve, that we, fallen and sinful, might be treated as He deserved.  {CT 267.4}
  8. Christ the sinless became sin for man.   {DD 16.4}
  9. etc...

EGW on our unclaimability to sinlessness:

  1. Only Those Far From Christ Claim Sinlessness—Why is it that so many claim to be holy and sinless? It is because they are so far from Christ. I have never dared to claim any such a thing. From the time that I was 14 years old, if I knew what the will of God was, I was willing to do it. You never have heard me say I am sinless. Those that get sight of the loveliness and exalted character of Jesus Christ, who was holy and lifted up and His train fills the temple, will never say it. Yet we are to meet with those that will say such things more and more.—Manuscript 5, 1885. {3SM 354.2}
  2. Those who make bold assumptions of holiness give proof in this that they do not see themselves in the light of the law; they are not spiritually enlightened, and they do not loathe every species of selfishness and pride. From their sin-stained lips fall the contradictory utterances: “I am holy, I am sinless.  {FW 95.2}
  3. I was shown that those who triumph, and claim that they are sinless, show in this very boasting that they are far from being without the taint of sin. The more clearly fallen man comprehends the character of Christ, the more distrustful will he be of himself, and the more imperfect will his works appear to him in contrast with those which marked the life of the spotless Redeemer. But those who are at a great distance from Jesus, whose spiritual senses are so clouded by error that they cannot comprehend the divine character of the great Exemplar, conceive of him as altogether such an one as themselves, and talk of their own perfection of holiness with a high degree of satisfaction. They really know little of themselves, and less of Christ. They are far from God. {LS80 211.2}
  4. They who claim to be sinless are in the position of the Pharisee, who made boast before God of his alms-giving, thanking God that he was not like the publican. But the poor publican had no piety or goodness to boast of, but, bowed down with grief and shame, sent up from his stricken soul a longing cry for God’s mercy. He dared not even cast his sinful eyes toward heaven, but beat his breast and prayed, ‘Lord, be merciful to me a sinner.’ The sin-pardoning Redeemer tells us that this man went to his house justified rather than the other. Those who are whole need not a physician, and those who consider themselves sinless do not experience that yearning for the wisdom, light and strength of Jesus. They are content with their attainments, and hear not the blessed words, ‘Thy sins be forgiven thee.’ They feel no necessity for growth in grace. They feel not as Paul did, that he must keep his body under, lest, after preaching to others, he should himself be a cast-away. The apostle declared that he died daily. He was every day battling with temptation, and hiding himself in Christ. Men who boast of their holiness are far from God; they have not Jesus in their hearts, and do not realize their own unworthiness. {LS80 212.1}
  5. Those who are really seeking to perfect Christian character will never indulge the thought that they are sinless. Their lives may be irreproachable, they may be living representatives of the truth which they have accepted; but the more they discipline their minds to dwell upon the character of Christ, and the nearer they approach to His divine image, the more clearly will they discern its spotless perfection, and the more deeply will they feel their own defects. {SL 7.2}
  6. Those who take pains to call attention to their good works, constantly talking of their sinless state and endeavoring to make their religious attainments prominent, are only deceiving their own souls by so doing. {SL 12.2}
  7. The clearer their views of the greatness, glory, and perfection of Christ, the more vividly will they see their own weakness and imperfection. They will have no disposition to claim a sinless character; that which has appeared right and comely in themselves will, in contrast with Christ’s purity and glory, appear only as unworthy and corruptible. It is when men are separated from God, when they have very indistinct views of Christ, that they say, “I am sinless; I am sanctified.” {SL 50.2}
     
  8. We hear the vehement expressions of false religionists who make bold pretensions, who talk loud and long, saying, “I am holy, I am sinless,” when they have not the least foundation for their faith.{2SM 22.3}
     
  9. Nor can we trust impressions. The voice or spirit that says to a man, You are under no obligation to obey the law of God; you are holy and sinless, while he is trampling on the divine law, is not the voice of Jesus; for He declares: “I have kept my Father’s commandments” (John 15:10). And John testifies: “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4). {2SM 49.4}
     
  10. Their assertion that they are sinless is false and should not be received.... {Ev 595.2}
     
  11. many who are filled with the greatest bitterness against the commandment-keeping people of God make the loudest boast of living holy, sinless lives.{FW 43.4}
  12. In conversation with one of our ministers he claimed to be sinless and said that he had no need of the Bible, for the Lord told him directly what to do; he was far beyond the Bible teachings. What can be expected of those who follow their own imaginings rather than God’s Word but that they will be deluded? They cast away the only detector of error, and what is to prevent the great deceiver from leading them captive at his will? {FW 53.2}
     
  13. This man represents a class. Spurious sanctification leads directly away from the Bible. Religion is reduced to a fable. Feelings and impressions are made the criterion. While they profess to be sinless and boast of their righteousness, the claimants of sanctification teach that men are at liberty to transgress the law of God and that those who obey its precepts have fallen from grace. {FW 53.3}
     
  14. We may commit the keeping of our souls to God as unto a faithful Creator, not because we are sinless, but because Jesus died to save just such erring, faulty creatures as we are.{GW92 427.3}
     
  15. etc...
     
  16. We cannot say, “I am sinless,” till this vile body is changed and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus, the blessed hope is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; complete in Christ, robed in His righteousness and perfection.—The Signs of the Times, March 23, 1888. {3SM 355.4}
     
  17. When the conflict of life is ended, when the armor is laid off at the feet of Jesus, when the saints of God are glorified, then and then only will it be safe to claim that we are saved, and sinless.—The Signs of the Times, May 16, 1895. {3SM 355.5}

EGW on the possibility and encouragement of perfection [of character]: 

  1. Christ did not leave this world until He had made it possible for every soul to live a life of perfect faith and obedience, to have a perfect character. {TDG 204.4}
     
  2. By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God’s commandments.  {COL 311.4}
  3. He has made it possible for them to perfect Christian character through His name, and to overcome on their own account as He overcame in their behalf.  {BEcho September 19, 1898, par. 2}
     
  4. Through repentance, faith, and good works he may perfect a righteous character, and claim, through the merits of Christ, the privileges of the sons of God. {4T 294.2}
     
  5. Seek for a perfect character, and let all you do, whether seen and appreciated by human eyes or not, be done with an eye single to God’s glory, because you belong to God and He has redeemed you at the price of His own life.  {ML 219.3}
     
  6. The standard of character which Christ has made it possible for us to reach ... is a perfect standard. In trying to measure [up to] it, the senses become confused. The question is asked, “Who by searching can find out God?” (See Job 11:7.) Yet He has made it possible for us to become like Him in character. {UL 70.2}
     
  7. Christ has left us a perfect, sinless example. His followers are to walk in his footsteps. If they are not transformed in character, they can never dwell with him in his kingdom.  {GCB October 1, 1899, Art. B, par. 9}
     
  8. You may say that you believe in Jesus, when you have an appreciation of the cost of salvation. You may make this claim, when you feel that Jesus died for you on the cruel cross of Calvary; when you have an intelligent, understanding faith that his death makes it possible for you to cease from sin, and to perfect a righteous character through the grace of God, bestowed upon you as the purchase of Christ’s blood. The eyes of fallen men may be anointed with the eye-salve of spiritual comprehension, and they may see themselves as they really are,—poor, and miserable, and blind, and naked. They may be brought to realize their need of repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. {RH July 24, 1888, par. 5}
 

Conclusion

Synonyms "sinless" and "perfect" might be equal (==) in many circumstances but are not always equal (===) as hinted by seemingly contractory statements in the Bible and EGW writings.  In the debate whether perfection (of character) is possible, the negative camp can successfully get a draw by injecting the word "sinless".  Therefore it is important to understand that sinlessness is not always equal to perfection (of character) as shown by usage in the Bible and affirmed by usage in EGW writings.

"But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." 1 Peter 5:10. {HP 201.1}

"So perfect is the character represented which men must have in order to be Christ’s disciples that the infidel has said that it is not possible for any human being to attain unto it. But no less a standard must be presented by all who claim to be children of God. Infidels know not that celestial aid is provided for all who seek for it by faith. Every provision has been made in behalf of every soul who shall seek to be a partaker of the divine nature and be complete in Jesus Christ. Every defect is to be discerned and cut away from the character with an unsparing decision." {HP 201.2}




Notes:
  1. i avoided synonyms (upright, righteous, holy, blameless, etc...) as it is disambiguation of synonyms (sinless and perfect) i'm trying to do;
    1. synonyms make the water murkier; 
    2. it is the synonymity w/c is the root of the debate;
  2. i have avoided definitions as there can be these traps:
    1. personal definitions can add complexity;
    2. english word senses can expand argument branches;
    3. greek/hebrew word senses can expand argument branches
      1. i don't know greek and hebrew and am theologically bullyable on that point, 
      2. so i stay on EGW writings because it is naturally english and it mirrors the Bible statements on this matter
        1. the english etymologies of "sinless" and "perfect" have not evolved as much as the etymologies of "conservative" and "liberal"
  3. i don't know Calvininistic or Armenian ideas, i only focus on Bible and SOP usage 
  4. i avoid commentaries as i'm only sure of the Bible and SOP as "fire from heaven" in contrast with "strange fire".  i have observed many theologians having strange theologies ("strange fire") just because they prioritize other books over the Bible and SOP.  i'm just a layman, if i would consider a comment outside the Bible and SOP, at least the idea should be specified (in idea form, not in bulk form) in the minutes of the GC session.
  5. [almost] every other article or lecture i have seen ambiguates the terms more with just more force. the approach i took was to disambiguate. it seems more simple to me. more logical. more defendable. less interpretation. less expansion/projection. less imagination. less assumption/presumption. less possibility of mistake.

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