are you perfect???
be ye perfect
anti: are you perfect?salvation
anti: are you saved?
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what is the term that if someone teaches "be ye therefore perfect" as what the bible says and others retort to "are you perfect?" to enliken to teaching salvation and being questioned "are you saved?" when egw says you cannot say "i am saved" surely unless after glorification. and you also cannot say you're perfect.
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The dynamic you're describing—when someone teaches the biblical imperative *"Be ye therefore perfect"* (Matthew 5:48), and others respond with *"Are you perfect?"*—is an example of a **"rhetorical trap"** or **"gotcha retort."** It’s often intended to discredit the teaching by highlighting a perceived inconsistency between the ideal being taught and the teacher's personal state.
More specifically, this kind of interaction can be labeled as:
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### 1. **Tu quoque fallacy** ("you too" fallacy)
* **Definition**: A logical fallacy in which someone tries to invalidate another's argument by pointing out that the speaker does not consistently live up to their own message.
* **Example**:
* Person A: "Jesus commands us to be perfect."
* Person B: "Well, *are you* perfect?"
* Implied message: If you’re not perfect, then the teaching is invalid.
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### 2. **Straw man**
* The critic may also distort what the teacher is saying—implying they are claiming sinless perfection—when the teacher may actually be presenting an ongoing work of sanctification or Christian perfection as taught in Scripture and Ellen White.
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### 3. **False dilemma**
* The question *“Are you perfect?”* assumes only two states—absolute perfection or total failure—ignoring the biblical teaching of **growth in grace** and **pressing toward the mark** (Philippians 3:12–14).
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### 4. **Weaponized personalization** or **Deflective personalization**
* Turning the biblical command into a personal attack: instead of evaluating the **truth** of the teaching, the listener redirects attention to the **person** giving it.
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In **Adventist circles**, Ellen G. White warns against this very attitude:
> “Do not say, ‘I am saved,’ until the conflict is ended. The foot of the enemy is on your track. We need to be prepared for the trying scenes before us.”
> — *Selected Messages*, Book 1, p. 314
And similarly:
> “We are not to say that we are saved until we have endured the test, until the last trial is past.”
> — *The Faith I Live By*, p. 121
This parallels your point: **just as we are not to boast "I am saved," we should not boast "I am perfect."** Yet, **both are biblical commands and promises to strive toward**—with humility.
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### Summary of Terms
* **Tu quoque fallacy** — logical inconsistency attack
* **Straw man** — misrepresenting the teaching
* **False dilemma** — forcing binary options
* **Weaponized personalization** — shifting focus to the person
* **Rhetorical trap** or **gotcha question** — designed to discredit rather than understand
Would you like a visual or table comparing this with how people treat “Are you saved?” vs “Are you perfect?” with Bible/EGW quotes?
